Sen. Cory Booker on the Battle for the Supreme Court and Sean McElwee on the Strength of Progressive Democrats
With the election only 6 weeks away and Democrats confronted with a surprise conservative Supreme Court nomination, worries are rising about the strength of Biden’s candidacy. Senator Cory Booker has some reassuring words for the concerned, tells us about the equalizing power of baby bonds, and the feeling that this election is a moral moment for the nation. Meanwhile, Sean McElwee discusses the difficulties of uniting the left, and his belief that progressives will unite behind Biden in November.
Show Notes:
00:00 – Intro
01:00 – Mitch's hypocrisy
04:15 – Lindsey's look inward
08:30 – The potential of baby bonds
12:30 – The pandemic campaign playbook
15:15 – Kamala's role in the fight
20:00 – Don't just give your fries, give your socks
28:00 – Climate change: an issue for everyone
31:15 – Creating a broad coalition
34:00 – New leaders on the Left
35:30 – How to win outside Brooklyn and Boston
40:45 – Outrage of the Week
Transcript:
Al Hunt: [00:00:00] hello and welcome a 20, 20 politics war room with James Carville and I'm Al hunt. We have a big announcement that we're pleased to make, and that is the fact that Politiken has become our new partner. James has been to every political con event since the McKinley administration. And we are very proud to be partnering with them on this podcast.
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James, our guest is United States Senator from New Jersey, Cory Booker one of the Democrats leading voices on expanding economic opportunities, former mayor of Newark. He's also a member of the judiciary committee. Senator Booker, thank you for joining us. Mitch McConnell, the King of hypocrites. You said his epoxy is astounding.
He sat on the nomination of Merrick Garland for 10 months under false pretenses. And now he's going to rush through the Trump nominee and weeks, but Senator, it looks like he's going to get away with it.
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:01:15] Well, I don't know if we'll get away with it. The long run, we went back to the United States Senate and we win the presidency and hold the house.
We have a whole set of options that we can do to begin to undo the damage that he's done. So again, this could be a short term gain for him, uh, but it couldn't really awaken a lot of folks in this country to understand that these naked anti-democratic power grabs, uh, or, uh, Are really threatening things that people find precious, like their healthcare, like their right to organize in a union, uh, like their access to the ballot itself with voting rights.
So this could be a great wake up moment. You know, I talked to governor Newsome yesterday last night about. California. They had this awful proposition that got passed, uh, um, that really woke a lot of people up and especially engaged all Latino Americans, Latino Californians in the political process, like never before.
And they have never gone back to allowing the Republicans to run that state.
Al Hunt: [00:02:15] Well, Senator, that's a really good, critical question. You've just raised because what the Republicans are claiming is that not only are they going to win, then there's, as far as the court was concerned, but a, uh, getting a right wing, uh, you know, material is going to energize their voters on November 3rd.
And this is a godsend for Lindsey Graham and Joni Ernst and all those. Do you think the Democrats will be equally if not more energized because in the past, sometimes that hadn't been the case.
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:02:43] Well, again, I can only speak to my hopes. The only metrics I have is the significant increase, uh, of donations, both small dollar donations and large solid donations, organically that have gone on to senators.
Uh, we've seen a much greater increase for Democrats, uh, than we have for Republicans. People are angry. And in fact, the majority of Americans over 60% believe that this Senate, this Supreme court seat should be left. Until after the inauguration of whoever the next president to, to take that oath is so I, I I'm hopeful.
And you know, too often we realize, and this is what Martin Luther King wrote about. So eloquently and the letters from the Birmingham jail. Where he just said, it's this, the, the issue for him was not the KKK or the white citizens council. He was more concerned about moderate people who are doing nothing and who sit on the sidelines, even though there were really consequential issues there.
And this is one of those moments where we have to ask ourselves, uh, for me, my generation, people that were born. Around 1970. This is our great moment. Were we weren't asked to my generation to storm beaches of Normandy or to do freedom rides, knowing our buses would get bombed and we would get beaten.
This is our moral moment. And will we stand on the sidelines or we'll a, and B bystanders or will be upstanders and get in and involve ourselves with all of our time resources, uh, and, and, and, and, uh, energy that we have to try to. Help our country at this moral crossroads get on the right path.
Al Hunt: [00:04:15] We mentioned earlier, you're on the judiciary committee.
The chairman is Lindsey Graham. He used to have a reputation for fairness, integrity, working with colleagues. No longer what happened to Lindsay?
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:04:26] I, that is a question that, that he's going to have to ask. And I, I really believe that it's one that, that, uh, we're going to have to look in the mirror and really ask him, because in this most recent case, we see him directly contradicting himself.
I mean, it could need to be more bald. He tried to use the Kavanaugh hearing as, uh, that changed it, but we have him on tape subsequent to the Kavanaugh hearing. Speaking specifically to this idea that if for some reason there's a Republican president and our Supreme court vacancy, uh, but he believed, but he would not, he said clearly that he would not fill that seat.
And he literally went as far as to say is, you know, use my words against me. So. Oh, look, he told us his word, what his word was and he's now directly violating his word. And so we know that across the spectrum of the Republicans who spoke in the way that Lindsey did. That that honor is not something they will be upholding that they have different rules, rules that in effect they've given Donald Trump a Phi, when it comes to the Supreme court, a five year term and Barack Obama, a three year term, uh, with which to nominate.
And that to me is patently unfair. And I think the American people know it. Yeah, I do think there's consequences. I don't think you could just get away with something like that. And the fact that that race, his reelection race is now within the margin of error. A is a good example of, of what it's costing him.
James
James Carville: [00:05:56] said I have a memory in it, correct me if I'm wrong with Trump actually use you is as a straw man to scare suburban women. Is it, am I correct?
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:06:08] You are correct. His last two rallies. I think two days in a row. He's been calling me out, uh, during the rallies as if I was going to be some kind of boogeyman that would scare suburban voters.
And let's be clear, suburban white women. I think you squeeze trying to scare. Using the big six foot, three bold black guy in the Senate.
James Carville: [00:06:27] I don't mean to laugh. It's not funny, but it is funny. That's
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:06:30] funny. There's humor. It's funny. But the point yet part of this is, I don't know if you know my history in 1969.
I was born here in the spring in DC and my parents were trying to move in that time. To New Jersey. And they were looking for the districts that had the, I was performing public schools, which happened to be white community. He's in the Northern part of the state. And every time they would look at a home, they would be turned away because of the color of their skin.
They will be. And what happened was some great activists, uh, mostly white folks. So we're going to help you. And they began having sending couples to poses my parents after they were told the house was sold. My, the white couple would come and see if the house was still for sale and house. I grew up in a white couple, actually put a bid on the house.
The bid was accepted on the day of the closing, the white couple didn't show up. My dad did an a lawyer. And the real estate agent didn't give up. He punched my dad's lawyer in the face, Cigna dog on my dad. And so we moved into this incredible community based upon the sacrifice and struggle and willingness to literally shed blood for my family.
And we grew up, uh, as my father has calls the four raisins and a tub of sweet vanilla ice cream and 18 years later, you know, I was president of my class on a roll and a high school, all American football player. The older I get the better I was. Uh, and, uh, um, and that's my suburban story. And so. For him to be dredging up the worst bile of our politics, the darkest corners of fear-mongering and racism and a demagogue.
I agree, trying to pit Americans against other Americans, uh, this smacks of worse than a Willie Horton, uh, worse than the kind of a naked, uh, uh, appeals of the Republican party, unfortunately, is being more and more known for, and we need to reject it. And I think suburban Americans. We'll reject it because he's not doing well as you probably know, James amongst suburban white women.
Alright,
James Carville: [00:08:24] let's move on. I'm very intrigued by something that you ran out. In Alberta is too. And I to talk about baby bonds, cause I think this has some, some real potential to address, you know, that sometimes I tell my students, you know, the solution for a lack of money as well, money, you don't have money.
You know, I have money. I always say, Oh, money's not that important. Well, if you don't have any, it's very goddamn important if you've got a lot. Well, it's, you know, Yeah, just talk to us kind of briefly and concisely about your idea of baby bonds and how they
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:09:02] quickly that the, the American tax code is used over $650 billion every year to help people with wealth, get tax breaks, to create more wealth.
So we shift 600 plus billion dollars. Uh, and it's things I agree with, like the mortgage interest deduction, but that's used by people that make over a quarter million dollars a year predominantly. Uh, so why don't, why don't we use our tax code to create wealth amongst those that don't have it Paychex help you get by wealth helps you get ahead and it's generational.
So this is a plan that simply says every child born in America as an American birthright, you get an account. With with, uh, with, with $1,000 in it. And every year up until you're 18, you get amount placed up to that, depending on the wealth of your family, the poorest kids, one out of six children in America's in poverty, we get up to $2,000 in there and it would go all the way down to the richest kids, nothing.
And, and by the time. The child is 18. If they're poor below the poverty line, they could have upwards of $50,000 in that account. And no matter how much you have some kids, we have 18,000, 20,000. You can use that money. When you turn 18 on wealth building endeavors, you can use it for college to buy a home, to start a business.
And what we know about that actually is it has an incredible. A platform for every child to give them a stake in a free market economy. But it also, so has the collateral benefit, of course, closing the racial wealth gap, meaning that every, because there's more poor white kids and there are poor black kids, but.
You know, that there are disproportionately more, uh, poor black kids in terms of percentage. And so it would actually close the racial wealth gap in America and give every child in terms of just wealth and equal playing field, uh, for which to go forward. And that's something that's really promising one of these game changer ideas that would give every American as a birthright, a chance to build wealth in this country, which is really.
What helps people get ahead. And by the way, it has a collateral benefit. The more wealth you build in America, the more wealth there is, and multiplies reverberates out into this society as a whole.
James Carville: [00:11:08] I just think it's terrific. And as I understand it, it would apply equally to a kid in Appalachian, Eastern Kentucky, as it would to a child in polished.
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:11:17] I had that exact conversation with Joe mansion. His state would probably, I think he said one of the highest child poverty rates in West Virginia would benefit the most. And they're disproportionally as you know, very, not as many, not that many black children period. Right. Well,
Al Hunt: [00:11:32] James, James, you and I totally Greg gets it, but one of the most innovative ideas to come out of the primaries, Senator Joe Biden, isn't talking about it much.
I had, you talked to him about talking about this
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:11:43] more. You know, the first time I had a conversation about them was on the stage and in a debate, it was off camera during the commercial break, he puts his arm around me and he goes, God, I really liked that baby bonds proposal. And so it's on his radar screen.
He knows about it. Uh, and we've, we've obviously talked about it. So I'm hoping it's something. That's going to catch momentum. And the great thing is, is I'm racking up. Co-sponsors in the Senate, on the democratic, uh, at a, at a, at a pretty good pace talking to moderate Dems as well as a more progressive Dems.
Cause I think that everybody gets this understanding we're capitalist society. Here's a chance to give everybody more of a fair shot.
Al Hunt: [00:12:19] How would you assess the Biden campaign so far? And is there anything you'd like to see him doing a little bit differently?
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:12:26] Well, I, I think that you have to understand that there's no rule book for a campaign during a pandemic.
And I just think that they're making the best out of a situation and. Um, you know, I think Trump is making a horrible mistake going into the debates, trying to portray him as an aimless elder, because that means you've now lowered the bar that Joe was going to over-perform and in the eyes of people, I think that Joe Biden has been discipline in talking about, uh, the issues that Americans care about.
Even with this Supreme court issue coming up, he's trying to keep it focused on the pandemic and focused on issues like healthcare, which was the driving issue. Of the 2018 campaign? Well, I've been, I've been impressed about their discipline and their focus and their, you know, look giving enough rope to Donald Trump who every week seems to make unforced errors in how he's handling the pandemic, uh, how he's handling the economy and, uh, doing the kind of things.
It turns out those of a moderate voters in America.
Al Hunt: [00:13:32] Senator, let me ask one more and then turn it back to James that his Republican plan, as I understand it is probably to take this nominee to the floor the week of the 26th, the week before the election and their hope if they, if they, if that materializes is that, that will detract attention, divert attention from COVID-19 and all the Trump failures.
Uh, do you worry? They get away with that?
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:13:56] No, I don't worry. I just don't think the. Uh, the oxygen that the Supreme court nominees is going to take is going to be enough to distract people from what they're feeling. I mean, we, we now know from a recent polls that came out, uh, about how much people are hurting economically at the kitchen table.
Economics is just not working how much people are in financial fear, the food lines that are still so long. And unfortunately COVID is not going away. As he said, magically, it is still a real issue affecting lives. 200,000 Americans have died and it's growing. And I think that the more people who know folks who've passed away, the more folks are still being inhibited in what they're able to do, visiting their grandchildren, going out.
I think these are real things that show that people are discontented with and they fall squarely on the plate of the. One of the greatest failures in leadership on the planet earth, because America is such a profound outlier on how we, well, this pandemic, how badly we handled it. So I actually think that the issues are with us from economic issues to health care issues.
Uh, and frankly, I think a lot of people are here for civility and decency, and that is so thoroughly embodied by Joe Biden. Um, that I think he's, he's the white man to carry this message.
James Carville: [00:15:15] So there's going to be hundreds of hours of cable TV advice on how to Democrat should have the hearings in the judiciary committee.
And I don't know how many columns will be written. What are you going to be advising internally is to the strategy of how, how Democrats should go about questioning the prospective nominee. Well,
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:15:36] I want to be candid with you that we're literally having these discs options right now. And, and yeah, and I, you know, I'm just one of these folks on the belief that this is the height, a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the land.
And there were a lot of real issues that Trump judges have astounded me all, you know, saying that Brown vs board of education is not settled law. Their belief in the rising supremacy in American culture of the, of the corporation over individual rights. Uh, so I think pulling a lot of that out. So America sees how, how, how conservative, how right wing this judge is, uh, wherever they nominate.
I imagine that's the, the bill they're gonna fall in and what it would mean, Americans autonomy over their own bodies. Healthcare. Their ability to stand up against corporations and corporate power and monopolistic tendencies. A lot of the kind of, uh, uh, for key, I always say that he was a Supreme court justice that failed to get on the Supreme court, but his ideology so shape right wing, uh, uh, jurisprudence, uh, that they've really pulled us away from, uh, the courts that a lot of Americans on both sides of the aisle still, they have their individual rights that they have there.
Uh, civil rights that they have their voting rights and a lot of the gains that were made in my parents' generation now under attack by the very Supreme court that helped us secure them. I mean, what a shame we are in America, then John Lewis, uh, God rest his soul, uh, literally bled the Southern soil red for voting rights.
And, uh, uh, achieved, uh, the, one of the great, uh, pieces of legislation that passed through the United States. Congress signed by a president, the voting rights act, and then to see it gutted by the Supreme court that now, uh, really seems as, uh, as justice Ginsburg. So powerfully wrote and in the middle of a rainstorm, uh, wants to say that, Hey, since we're not getting wet, let's get rid of the umbrella that that gave protections after African Americans and a lot of, a lot of States that needed.
Uh, uh, that, that section is called pre-clearance, uh, for voting rights, uh, changes. So we're, we're seeing the gains of our parents and grandparents be eroded by this court. Uh, and I think Americans don't understand that that's happening. And I think that having one of these hearings is an opportunity for us to draw out just how conservative this judge is and what it will mean to American society.
So,
James Carville: [00:18:00] I guess the big question is that, you know, what role should send it to Harris play in SMN? And she is the vice presidential nominee. She is district committee. She's a very accomplished, uh, warrior, uh, in she's very good at this kind of thing. You think the caucus will give her an enhanced role or some people say, well, maybe she should take a up.
Less than in hand for Olin VR campaign. Indeed. Do you have a particular view on this? I know it's kind of difficult question
Al Hunt: [00:18:30] to ask
James Carville: [00:18:30] a fellow Senator, but do you have any general observation on what you think the role of Senator Harris shouldn't be in this?
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:18:36] Well, I, I think we gotta keep our eyes on the prize.
And so I'm going to tell you right now, most likely we're gonna do everything we can to stop it, but most likely this justice will be put on the court. Uh, and that means that. Uh, we have to win this next election, both the Senate and the white, the house, uh, in order to be able to undo any damage that they're doing.
Have I have a lot of whole suite of options. We'll have, I just want a vice presidential nominee and, and the presidential nominee of our party to do everything they can to keep that as their first priority. Now, now, maybe that means that she should come back and sit next to me like she did in the last Supreme court nomination and do the job that she does.
So aptly well. Um, so I don't know what the timing and circumstances are going to be, but they have to make the decision about what's best for what I think is the most important election of our lifetime and perhaps of the last century. And I hope they make that decision accordingly.
James Carville: [00:19:31] I'm very impressed with your answer because dancing is whatever it takes to win the election.
That's the most important thing we can do. Okay. We have excellent chance to win the election a less than excellent chance to stop and just nominate.
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:19:44] I hope. Yes, that's right. Salient message
James Carville: [00:19:47] back to the caucus.
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:19:49] Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Al Hunt: [00:19:51] James that's you, you nailed it, Senator. You, we have taken longer than we promised you.
Ha you, you are not only a great Senator, uh, and a great representative of your state, but you were a great all American football player and we can't thank you enough for today. We appreciate it. Be safe.
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:20:10] Can you do me a favor? Allow me one last, minor, filibuster. Absolutely
Al Hunt: [00:20:14] please. As long as you want.
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:20:16] Well, James Carville, uh, I I've listened to him tell a good tall tale from time to time to illustrate a point.
And if you don't mind, I'm going to just tell you a short story about what I think this point is. And so I, I was, uh, I don't know if you've ever heard of these places, but three blocks from where I live in Newark, New Jersey. We have this place called McDonald's. I don't know if you've ever heard it. Um, but, uh, um, I'm working in New Jersey.
Uh, there's a great man named Kevin Batts who drives me around. And, uh, we were coming home from a long day at work and we've been in the car together for years and he's a former police officer served in the military, grew up in the newer projects. We don't have to talk even that much. We know each other so well, just to glance in the rear view, mirror eyes meeting, he often knows what I'm thinking.
And so as we're passing by this. McDonald's uh, our eyes meet and he sees me hang my head in shame. And immediately he knew what I wanted. I wanted to go through that drive through cause the flesh was weak and he could tell. So we went through that. Drive-thru. Now gentlemen, I'm a vegan. And one of the best ways to know if somebody is a vegan, how you know, what is, you just don't need to say anything.
They'll usually tell you that they're a vegan, but I, they get some McDonald's French fries. Uh, uh, and as we drove through, I got my two to McDonald's French fries held them. Like they were the most precious thing on the planet at that moment. Cause all I wanted to do was get home. On bustle my pants, sit on my couch and watch some bed TV at the end of a long day.
And I saw out my window though, a guy written around in a trash can. And I know you, two are gentlemen raised in faith and my faith says something about. If you have two McDonald's French fries and your neighbor has none. I think Jesus said something about that. Maybe it's the sermon on the Mount or something, but I rolled down my window and offered the man, one of my fries and, and, and it was, uh, a good moment.
He seemed really grateful and, and, and I felt good connecting with somebody of equal dignity, uh, that we could have a moment like that, uh, where we're, where we got to share. And, but then he changes his question. He says, Uh, uh, it makes a point to me. He goes, sir, do you have any, do you have any socks now? I don't.
I knew immediately he must have had something going on with his feet and really needed socks. Uh, but I don't carry socks in my car. And I looked around Bailey and said, I'm sorry, sir. I don't. And then I turned my head straight, look at the rear view mirror with, which was, I thought the signal for Kevin to drive, but Kevin doesn't drive.
Kevin puts his car in park. Uh, rolls down his window, reaches between the steering wheel and his leg eggs takes off his shoes and hands the guy, the socks he was wearing. And at that moment, I realized I was three blocks from my home where I have a drawer full of socks. I wouldn't miss one, if it was gone and I had a moment to help somebody.
Yeah. I didn't take it back that man, those talks were worth more to him than any of my possessions, probably any of the clothing I had at home was worth to me. And I say that story because I really think that's where we are. It's not a matter of do are, or the majority of Americans are supportive of, uh, of Joe byte.
I know the majority of Americans are the majority Americans. I know one, uh, the Democrats who control the Senate, heck even we're in the minority right now. We've got 15 million more votes we account for more than the Republicans. Uh, the question is, is, is how much of a moral imagination are we going to use this moment to do, to do more as the opportunity presents itself?
Will we just, uh, do a little, like I gave them gentlemen, my fries or, well, we take off our socks. Well, we use our moral imagination to find a bigger and greater way to contribute to a moment that demands it because it may not be you that suffering. Right now, but this is an election that is going to deeply affect millions of Americans.
Whether they can have the prescription drugs are not, maybe you can afford your prescription drugs, but there's somebody whose ability to get their life saving drugs is going to be determined by this election. Maybe you have healthcare through your work and through your job like I do, but some American, this is going to determine whether they can keep their healthcare or not.
Maybe you are somebody that is, has their Liberty. Uh, but this is going to determine whether somebody who is in a nation of mass incarceration is going to get justice or not. There are so many issues that affect your fellow human in America. And so I just hope that your listeners, who I know are probably already committed to the cause.
Uh, don't do like me. And just give their fries, but, but go bigger and take off the damn socks and, and, and give it all in this election because generations yet unborn, uh, will feel the magnitude of their generosity. If we all put it out there.
Al Hunt: [00:24:46] Well, if it takes your socks, take off your socks, but when you're right, Senator Booker, you have been a fabulous guest.
We hope you'll come back and visit again. Thank you so much. Alright.
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:24:56] Bye. Bye now
Al Hunt: [00:25:06] James, our next guest, as you know, Sean McElwee, the executive director of the data for progress. One of the most influential, uh, I guess I would say really left wing. I don't think that's, I think that's a complimentary term for you, Sean. Uh, figures young figures in the, in the, uh, among Democrats in American politics.
Uh, you really are influential interesting, particularly with young people. Are you okay with the button campaign so far? I know you've endorsed it, but how's it going?
Sean McElwee: [00:25:36] Yeah, I think there's been a lot of backseat quarterbacking, um, of the biding campaign. Uh, but you know, the proof of the pudding is in the eating of it.
And, uh, as of now, they have made and a consistent lead, um, overdose Trump, and they have shown a credible willingness from my view, uh, to work with progressive. Uh, we're not always going to agree. Um, but the climate plan did the biding campaign released, um, really looks it to be within the framework of, you know, what Inslee and Warren have been pushing.
This sort of big investments in clean energy, clear and defined standards and a focus on the frontline communities that are most effected by climate.
Al Hunt: [00:26:18] It helped me. I, um, I think James is probably close to this. I've always thought of myself as pretty liberal. Uh, I favor a much higher taxes on the wealthy of public option for healthcare controlling drug prices.
I too am pleased with the Biden Harris climate change goals, but, but, but there's a fault line that I probably fail. Uh, and, and what would it be.
Sean McElwee: [00:26:40] You will fail.
Al Hunt: [00:26:41] Yeah. You know, sort of a traditional liberal, if you
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:26:43] will. Oh
Sean McElwee: [00:26:45] my God. Let me count the ways.
Al Hunt: [00:26:47] What gave me the best three,
Sean McElwee: [00:26:49] my guess is you probably don't support Medicare for all right, right.
Uh, what do you think about abolishing
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:26:55] ice? Uh,
Al Hunt: [00:26:56] I, I worry about it cause you gotta replace it with something. And I haven't seen something that could ACL
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:27:02] politically. And,
Sean McElwee: [00:27:03] and where are you in the green new deal? You might pass that, that test
Al Hunt: [00:27:08] close, certainly with the Biden Harris climate change, which moves, you know, a significant step closer to that.
You know, I probably, and, and James weigh in on this too, I probably would differ with you on any kind of immediate ban on fracking, but that would be for crash political reasons.
Sean McElwee: [00:27:24] There you go. I mean, I think, I think you're, you're close. We can work on you and get you all the way there. Um,
Al Hunt: [00:27:32] that you said there's hope,
Sean McElwee: [00:27:33] there's hope for you yet.
James Carville: [00:27:35] I've been following you sometime and, and kind of intrigued by this. And I sought a profile of you in Atlantic Biolayne Godfrey. Who's a kind of journalist source friend of mine. And I'm, I'm wanting to pursue this conversation that we had with, with Al because I'm more of a traditional liberal and a young progressive, but the climate thing being from Louisiana, probably the most effective site there is.
And how aggressive do you think we can be on this? And what are some of the more aggressive things you think that you and I could agree on to deal with this issue? Cause I think it's just, it's just awful.
Sean McElwee: [00:28:16] Yeah. Well, I think one of the, one of the stronger progressive issues and one that we work on a lot is the idea of climate change.
Um, but specifically the idea that the best way to solve climate change and create a sort of politically viable, um, Uh, coalition is too, you know, spend a lot of money on clean energy infrastructure and investment. You know, infrastructure is something that is always popular. Uh, it's something where there's lots of demand.
Uh, this is the way that we can move a lot of money, create a lot of jobs and to be entirely honest, it makes the log rolling in the Senate. Easier. Um, every member can see the ways that the climate change, uh, in clean energy money is going to benefit the voters of their state or district. And if we spend a lot of money and create a lot of jobs, people will see the upsides of addressing climate change.
Um, and not just the downsides. And right now it's cheaper than ever in the United States government to borrow money if needed. Um, we could easily. Uh, set up a national infrastructure bank, uh, clean energy infrastructure bank, or investment authority, uh, that could leverage lots and lots of government money, um, to make the longterm investments that we need to, you know, ultimately save our economy, um, as well as our country from the effects of climate change.
And, you know, as the democratic parties increasingly invested in racial equity, um, this is an opportunity as well, to, to target the lower income communities and communities of color, um, that we know are disproportionately affected by the pollution, um, that fossil fuels, uh, create.
James Carville: [00:29:58] Okay. What, what what's. Your view of that?
Sean McElwee: [00:30:02] Um, our view, certainly the decommissioning nuclear, uh, is probably not going to be a good idea at this time. Um, you know, at the end of the day, I think we realize that any sort of bill that comes through the Senate is going to involve some compromise and we've put out in innovation and investment paper, um, that talks about how we can invest in innovate in carbon capture and storage, um, as well as nuclear, um, you know, Deals are going to have to be made.
And I think for Progressive's, if we're seeing that real commitment to standards, uh, that decarbonize our economy, um, and we see a real commitment to the communities of color and low income communities that are disproportionally impacted. Um, you know, we're going to have to get to 50 votes at the end of the day.
Al Hunt: [00:30:54] Uh, I want to make sure Sean, that my son Benjamin doesn't tell me I'm a cop about, uh, cause I have to acknowledge, I had had some real criticisms, uh, of lack of a better term, the movement left in the past. And I think, you know, you have a swayed me on this year, but I think back in 2000 you were only in grade school, but your parents generation, when they took a dive, some of them took a dive on Al Gore.
It resulted not that he was perfect. It resulted in. Uh, John Robertson sent me well Leto. And when some didn't get behind Hillary, whatever her defects were, it resulted in Gorsuch and Capitol. And now probably a new court nominee who affect all kinds of people that you care a lot about for generations.
Is a lesson been learned or is it just the Trump is such an existential threat.
Sean McElwee: [00:31:40] Well, I, I certainly have learned the lesson. Um, and I have been advocating for progressives to understand themselves as you know, members in good standing of the broad democratic coalition. You know, one of the things that's frustrated me, um, About a lot of the rhetoric, um, from some parts of left, the democratic party is seeing the democratic party as a, as a monolith.
Um, in fact, the democratic party as a coalition party, they're our coalition members, including unions, African-American groups, Latino groups, women's rights groups. Um, all of these groups make up the sort of broad coalition, the democratic party. And we don't always agree. Uh, but I think we need to stick in that coalition.
And I think we are better off fighting. Oh for the democratic party line for the soul and for the vision of the future of the democratic party, do you guys, you know, I used to say a lot of people sort of want to take Medicare for all to the most conservative districts in the country and sort of hope that these sort of really.
Conservative, um, you know, rural whites will be won over by division Medicare for all I say, take Medicare for all to the democratic voters who really believe in that, um, make the case in a primary. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and we've seen a number of Medicare for all champions, a win. Uh, safe democratic seats, uh, over the last several, several years.
I think that the successes of Kansas, yeah, like Monday or Jones, I'm a costume Cortez has made the people who talk about a sort of a green party or third party look increasingly absurd. The green party has existed for decades and they've yet to put a single person in any elected office in this country.
Meanwhile, Those of us who have advocated for Democrats to contest or leftist and progressive to contest for democratic primaries, have an incredible number of points on the board, in the form of actual representatives who old power in the house and Senate.
Al Hunt: [00:33:39] Sean, this is such an immediate question, but you know, when, if Biden's elected, I think he will be 52 53 senators to 45 house Democrats.
You know, one of the roles, one of the role that the left will play is to pressure, to bring pressure, to try to move him to your part of the coalition and some issues. Is there a go to person on this, as I say, this is a media question, Bernie and Elizabeth will be in their seventies, is, is AOC. Uh, you know, the most prominent GoTo person or, or what
Sean McElwee: [00:34:08] I actually think that, uh, you know, one of the things the press movement has been successful at is, is getting a number and increasing number of representatives who either.
You know, we're progressive when they entered office or sort of saw the writing on the wall in terms of the way that the democratic party is moving. Um, you know, I think ed Markey is now someone who's increasingly seen as a deeply progressive figure with real bone a few days. Um, looking at the new members of the house, you've got Mondale Jones and Ritchie Torres and Jamal Bowman.
Entering from New York. Um, you've got a, an increasing number of progressive representatives in California. Georgette Gomez, um, is going to be on the ballot, uh, this November as, as best Leo in Washington. So. We're we're growing the caucus and we already have folks like Deb Milan, um, Ayana Presley, um, who I look up to.
So I think that obviously AOC is the, is the most prominent, um, progressive, but you know, Deb Alon is a deeply progressive woman, um, who has deeply progressive values. And I think has a vision for how to get those, those values across the finish line. So, so I think that we have an increasing number. Of members who are really starting to have
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:35:26] influence James
James Carville: [00:35:29] say, okay, Shawn, good guy.
Like you, you're talking about all these wonderful things we do in New York city or Boston or somewhere in Canada. Can you show me where you went on the election? TBI have less than plus 20 Democrats.
That's great. You can, you can rock in the Bronx and you can rock Brooklyn and you can drop in Boston, you know, but. So what's the real difference between, you know, having a, a very liberal person or a very progressive person. When is the progressive movement going to demonstrate that it's something other than an urban
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:36:09] core urban coalition?
Sean McElwee: [00:36:10] Sure. Well, it's two thoughts here. One is I was actually one of the more public advocates or beginning of the strategy in the safe, safer democratic seats. Um, because I think that it's a place where the sort of progressive message is really gonna play well. And I think you take the message to where it plays well.
Um, but I have argued, um, recently I interviewed Michael Grunwald and in the Atlantic piece that Progressive's do have something to say in swing seats. Um, but that what we've done is, is we have not. Tailored our message to that audience, um, that, that, that we want to hear it. And I argued if we're going to take our message to swing seats, what we should focus on is a pharmaceutical agenda.
Lowering drug prices. I'm injecting more competition into the pharmaceutical by allowing the government to, um, competitively licensed. Yeah. Overpriced drugs. I've argued that family leave is a, is a swing district issue, uh, that progressive kind of brace. And I've also argued that climate change is a swing.
It's a district issue. And if you talk to members, um, who have progressive values who have won in swing districts, they'll tell you the same thing. It's just those three issues really are winners. There are other parts of the rest of agenda that aren't winners, but you don't need to run on every part of your agenda in every district in the country.
And I would like to start to see more successes there. We have the, the sort of. Green shoots of this with members like Katie Porter who are progressive and who did flip up a house seat in California. Um, but in the coming coming years, I would really like to see Progressive's take more seriously this idea of a swing seat strategy, and I will give you one other name.
Uh, Candice Allan Suela. Oh, we did some polling, uh, behalf of the old pack of the country, Hispanic caucus for her in Texas 24. Uh, something, someone I deeply support is progressive and she is in a swing seat, um, in Texas. And I think she has a real shot at winning. And I think once we start to win those races, we'll really have, um, A case to make this the progressive agenda can play across the country.
But it's certainly something that I agree with you. I want to see more of. And I think that what we just need to do is we need to talk about the actual winning agenda in these races, um, which I think covers those three issues that I talked about, which we see as really being
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:38:23] top priority.
James Carville: [00:38:25] I think you have unbelievable.
I think it was very in MADEC approach to this. And I, you know, I know that you. I don't, I'm not very familiar with the progressive, but I'll call it urban it's movement. But I suspect that among many people you took up a lot of grief, but choosing to side with the Biden campaign, am I correct
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:38:46] in that? Uh,
Sean McElwee: [00:38:48] yes, I, I get a lot of grief, uh, all the time.
Uh, I try to take it. Um, but I think that the grief is part of growing things. I do think that there is a group of people who would rather sit on the sidelines and be morally pure than actually engage in, uh, the actuality of politics that involves compromise. Um, I've understood for a long time, um, that most people who work to actually get.
You know, legislation across the finish line ended up being hated by a lot of the, sort of most ideological people in their ranks. Um, but I'm, I'm willing to do that. Cause I think it's more important that we actually enact this vision, um, and make the democratic party, the best party it can be. Uh, then, you know, like, That I don't get my feelings started by someone like Landon lover, 69 on Twitter or something like that.
Al Hunt: [00:39:40] You have been a really interesting guests, but I must say there's one really big disappointment. And that is that your religion, the F bomb. We've been through 17 minutes, Sean and nothing.
I mean, you want to give a supporting shot?
Sean McElwee: [00:40:01] I'm so fucking, sorry.
Al Hunt: [00:40:06] Hey, back away, you really are an interesting guest. I'm going to learn more about you, James is too. So thank you so much for joining us
James Carville: [00:40:14] in touch, man. I, you know, thank you. Yeah, I think you'd develop a real sense of when to push and when to pull. And that's just the only way you get shit done is, you know, you got an opportunity to push you push and when you have to pull, you pull
Sean McElwee: [00:40:28] and I think let's get, let's get some fucking shit done
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:40:31] then.
Al Hunt: [00:40:41] Well, James, I love this show today and I just want a couple things you're on line. I want to mention, just in brief one, Ron Johnson, the chair that Senate security committee put out a hatchet job, accusing Joe Biden of a conflict of interest in Ukraine five years ago. This has been thoroughly vetted by honest appraisers pro democracy forces in Ukraine, the EU the best investigative reporters for the wall street journal Bloomberg the New York times.
And they've all concluded. What vice president Biden did was absolutely appropriate. And it was an effort to root out corruption in Ukraine. Ron Johnson is trying to create a diversion. He's either a useful idiot for Trump or just a dumb partisan hack. Maybe there's no difference. Secondly, please read.
Bart Gilman's piece that just came out in the Atlantic on the real ways that Donald Trump will try and might even be able to succeed in stealing this election. Gellman is a great reporter and this is a frightening article, James Carville.
James Carville: [00:41:42] Well, I'll tell you what's on my mind. I'm part of democratic culture, liberal culture, if you will.
And it is the weakest whiniest most pessimistic taken off the table retreat. Disgusting. It's all
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:41:57] terrible.
James Carville: [00:41:58] Everything is awful. Oh my God. We going to do it until Democrats actually learn how to stand in and fucking stand up
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:42:08] and do something
James Carville: [00:42:09] we're going to continue to be in retreat. All these democratic groups do is they have these retreats, at least before the pandemic in a party is always in retreat.
What the hell have we had the last democratic independent council? All right in every, in everybody is, Oh my God, it's terrible. This is going to happen. That's going to happen. That's why we lose. And this is, we can say it on TV. The problem with liberalism is liberal culture. And when, you know, when you're in a political fight, screw all of, you know, inclusion, tolerance, et cetera, et cetera, you got to get out there goddamn fight.
And what I liked about. Youngest of back. We, he doesn't mind getting his hands dirty. He doesn't mind getting criticized. I like, you know, to the extent that you know of, Booker's willing to put himself out a lie, but we have got to stop
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:43:03] this
James Carville: [00:43:04] presentation. We make the people, you know, we
Al Hunt: [00:43:07] got it. Oh my God.
Well, they got
James Carville: [00:43:09] this and they got that. Yeah, that's the shit that kills us. And I've been on this for a long time and I just really profoundly, deeply believe this, you know, we at summit, we certainly issues. We need to be for what we follow. We need to stand up for our values, but sometimes you just got to go out there and say, God damn it.
Let's go. And we just don't do that enough. And that's my general beef
Sen. Cory Booker: [00:43:36] right now.
Al Hunt: [00:43:37] That's an awful good one. Anything else?
James Carville: [00:43:40] No, that's good. I have my say
Al Hunt: [00:43:44] and you're dead. Right. And we had two really good guests,
James Carville: [00:43:48] a great guy. I run on my favorite show. I thought that a new center book would be good because he's just a very.
He's just a very smart guy. And then I had faith that Sean would be good. I thought he was an insightful young person, but you know, of course we don't have enough young people on the show,
Al Hunt: [00:44:06] but as I, you know, I think that, you know, I agree with them. You just said things, uh, you know, I might even having Sean McElwee on it might even impress me.
Your son will say, um,
James Carville: [00:44:17] my daughter, I don't know.
Al Hunt: [00:44:20] That's a, that's a, sometimes a few tire quest for us. Isn't it? Um, listen, uh, this is, this has been a terrific show. I want to thank everybody out there for listening to 2020 politics war rum. Follow us and politics war room and it politics on socials. Email his politics war room@gmail.com.
That's politics war room@gmail.com. Thank you for subscribing. Please rate the show hopefully with a five star review. We'll be back again next week with another good show. As we count down to November three, please register to vote and vote early. If you can vote once, but vote early if possible, take care and be safe.
And thank you.