Jonathan Martin on the Democratic Debate and LSU's Historic National Championship
New York Times National Political Correspondent Jonathan Martin joins James and Al to breakdown the Democratic debate and Louisiana State University's historic National Championship victory. Christy Harvey runs the 'Numbers' segment with the focus on the Houston Astros' sign stealing scandal. On the 'Back Page', the spotlight is on LSU and Impeachment.
Transcript:
Speaker 2 (Al Hunt): 00:06 welcome to war room politics with James Carville and I'm Albert Hunt, subscribed to 2020 politics war room on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. James, before we get to this week, stupendous guest, I want to say we're starting a partnership today with American university sine Institute of policy and politics from the campus. Now with enormous respect for LSU in wake forest, no university will more light up the boards than AAU with its rockstar president Sylvia Burwell. We hope Sylvia and the sine institutes, Amy Dacey will let us ride those coattails. Uh, in the times ahead. We have the guests that you would want to have today. Jonathan Martin, the chief political correspondent in New York times. Jonathan, I'm going to start with a really tough question because that's the status that you command a, you're not only a great reporter, but you're married above yourself as carbo. And I did. So I'm going to start with a really, really tough one. Monday night you watched the LSU Clemson game. Tuesday night you watched the democratic debate, which was more interesting.
Speaker 3 (John Martin): 01:17 Oh, that's the easiest question you could ever ask me. I've, I've, uh, having having married a Louisiana and, and, uh, I, you know, adopted the LSU tigers. Uh, I can say without hesitation that Monday was far more entertaining, especially if you take out the first quarter. It wasn't, it was far more entertaining. Uh, the final three quarters of the game were, were, uh, were excellent and, uh, uh, riveting for my money and the debate last night had a few moments. But, uh, I don't think of my angels of political history. We're going to be talking about the, uh, the January, 2020 debate here. And, uh, in the years to go.
Speaker 2: 01:54 Yeah, I actually thought it was kind of desultory, but tell me, did anything change? Did a neat dynamic changed? Is any hang different on uh, on, on, on January the 16th or 15th, rather than on the, on the 14th.
Speaker 3: 02:08 I thought Warren helped herself last night. Now I thought she made a compelling case for why she can win, not just in the moment with, um, with Senator Sanders and talking about women. Uh, and the question of electability, but I thought throughout the night, look, she's a really articulate candlelit and in these kinds of forums and get two hours, especially with a smaller stage, which you have now, you had six candidates there last night. I think she stands out in terms of being able to sort of make her case on her feet, uh, in, in sort of a soundbites that, that are, that are concise and compelling. Uh, I just don't know if that's necessarily gonna change the equation for her in Iowa. She's got a sort of reverse her slide there and I think that's why she was aggressive last night. It wasn't just because of this story about her and Sanders meeting.
Speaker 3: 02:57 I think it was also because she's feeling the urgency of trying to regain her status and Iowa state where she was leading for a good chunk of a fall and where she, she's obviously slipped. And so I thought that she helped herself last night. I'm just not sure that, um, too many voters are gonna are going to be acting based upon last night. John, we'll come back to that Sanders Warren exchange a little bit later. But, um, I agree with you. Uh, I thought, uh, she was the stand that last night. I also thought a winter probably was Joe Biden cause he wasn't a loser. No, that's exactly right. It Al, I can't tell you. I talked with my colleagues about this. It is so striking that the national front runner, and if you believe a couple of polls that came out this week, the front runner in Iowa, New Hampshire faces no incoming whatsoever, that there's no ordinance, you know, coming into his Fox hole.
Speaker 3: 03:48 Uh, the last debate before Iowa, uh, he is at or near the top and the Iowa polls and nobody lays a glove on them. Uh, a little, you know, from the moderators, but nobody on stage there, you know, his five rivals there don't confront him at all. It is so striking to me that he gets off with is basically a pass for his opponents. Um, I think part of that's because they don't want to do overt negativity. They've seen some of their rivals do it against Biden in the past. It hasn't gone well on the debate stage and I think their, their timber because of that. But I just, you know, having watched some of these primaries over the years, it is remarkable to see somebody who is a clear threat to be that nominee, a really faze little scrutiny from his rivals in the last weeks before the first vote.
Speaker 3: 04:38 So I think some of that is the fact that Trump attacks bhajans so much that the other candidates are afraid to attack him because it looks like they're going to be ganging up on Trump on by. Um, I mean, you know, it's that bad out there, but I agree with you guys. I think Warren, yeah. That, that some good last ice you showed more Gresham. I was kind of surprised about how on aggressive other academies are. Yup. Particularly a booty judge and Cobra cha I thought I saw it didn't be, you know, low boy and fighting there. Yeah, I couldn't agree more James. I thought that, um, Buddha judge like war and had to sort of do something to make his case out there. Uh, you have, you know, compelling, uh, rationale or know, maybe draw a contrast with his rivals. He just didn't do it last night and I didn't feel the urgency, uh, from him, which, you know, given what's happened to his standing in Iowa, uh, I thought he would feel more pressure to kind of stand up there and, and deliver.
Speaker 3: 05:38 And he just didn't really, he didn't really do it. Um, it might be because the assumption is the islands don't want negativity here in the final weeks before, uh, before votes. But I agree on that. I thought, which are, uh, also, you know, should be feeling some pressure. Obviously Iowa for her is do or she's got to get in that sort of top tier in Iowa, uh, or it's going to be hard for her to go on. And I didn't really see her make any obvious effort to, um, to stand out there and like she has in some past debates and I dunno Warren, it seems to think that her boats and Bernie's votes, I'll, she's got to challenge him to get the boats. I think that potential warn votes now voting for booty judge, you voted for club, y'all maybe some voted to yang, you know, even a few of the older, older Biden voted, all of our growth is not OBO on Barney's side and brought about a lot of those people are not going to leave. Yeah, no, there, there's a lot of cross pollination as you guys know. It's not the sort of neat, a progressive versus moderate out there. There's plenty of voters who, who look at it through a different lens and look clearly that Sanders war in top alternatives are the other, but there's plenty of voters and I've talked to them out there who are considering war and, but also thinking about candida, like Buddha judge. So it's a, it's not all just Sanders Warren.
Speaker 2: 07:01 Yeah. You know, I, I, um, uh, let's go back to that Sanders Warren exchange. I'm gonna do something. I rarely do. I really thought that CNN did a dreadful job, uh, on that exchange because basically they asked Bernie a question and he said, I did not say that a woman cannot be elected. They then went and asked, asked as a question, what did you think when he said that? She said, I disagreed. And that was the end of it. I mean, they basically were accusing one another, either of line or misrepresentation. I'm not normally into the gotcha kind of questions, but that was, that was a fairly big deal and it just kind of dribbled off until after the bait was over and she refused to shake hands with it.
Speaker 3: 07:43 And I think, by the way, speaking of this debate being recalled in history, I think this debate may ultimately be recalled just for those two moments. Uh, you know, Warren's standing up there and saying that the men on stage have a worse political record than a women. And then, uh, that, that heated. If, if, if, uh, uh, Mike's off moment there at the end of the debate where Warren wouldn't shake his hand and where Sanders appeared to be agitated and talking to her, I think that's what will lab recall from this, from this, this contest. And by the way, it's important to note it that it's, there's such a risk and a multichannels primary of two keen lits sort of going negative against each other. And I think that may also be part of the hesitation from, from Buddha judge and clove Machar last night by the way, is you know, they don't want to get an a in a mud fight because oftentimes when that happens and this kind of a six way race that can bring down to somebody else's benefit besides the, you know, party a and party B who are engaged in the fight.
Speaker 3: 08:42 And I think that's why Progressive's are so worried this week guys, is because they see this escalating fight between Warren and Sanders and they already to get hurt. Both. Well, let me make a point John, cause you're so right. But it's, that even is more true with
Speaker 2: 08:56 the Iowa caucuses because the way they work, you get into a room and if one candidate doesn't have that threshold, then what they, everyone else or those that do try to enlist them if bitterness, uh, you know, comes in between candidates, that makes it a bit harder to enlist other people at various places. Sure. Does, it sure does. Remember some time ago we read a story about how Sanders and Warren have a secret meeting, but he agreed not to attack each other.
Speaker 3: 09:22 And I couldn't stop laughing when I read the story because sacred meeting and that sacred agreement is now completely falling apart from everything I can tell. Yeah. And you know, it's a fascinating relationship because they, they, they are friendly. They do share a worldview. They share a contempt for kind of conventional politics. Uh, uh, they are true believers, but they're also politicians and they're ambitious and they have their, their rivalries and they have, you know, a sort of history of slights real and perceived. So, uh, look, this is inevitable. I mean, how many primaries have we seen where candidates sort of started with these de facto non-aggression packs? And inevitably they started the clash hack. I can remember where Ted Cruz was trying to stick close to, you know, Trump for most of 2015, and then the two of them were bitter, uh, opponents once the primary got going.
Speaker 2: 10:15 Jonathan, I'm going to wait into this with great trepidation because I'm probably going to alienate my wife and my daughter, but I think there's kind of a, you know, a mantra has developed that the democratic party has a problem, uh, with women and candidates of color. Uh, you know, all white. Um, I look, I think it's been harder for women had been harder for Kenny Chikara, but the last three nominees, uh, have, uh, been, uh, uh, an African American or a woman. The chairman of the party is a Latino. Elizabeth Warren is one of the finalists. I thought Camela Harris and Carrie and Corey Booker had great potential. I think they're impressive politicians. They didn't run very good campaigns. Uh, they didn't have a whole lot to say. And I also think Corey Booker in particular, but Harris too made a mistake by going left. I think they could have really been, you know, the real answer to Biden, uh, and taking on Bernie cause that's really where they both are. So I think it's a bit of a bum rap. Am I wrong?
Speaker 3: 11:12 Well, it's a more complicated equation, uh, because the candidates who tend to do the best among African Americans and Hispanics are the two 70 something year old white guy and Sanders. And, um, and, and by look, Biden has been, um, uh, strong in this campaign since day one in large part because of the, the sort of deep connection and support he enjoys from the black community. Bernie Sanders has become a real force in California and is growing in Nevada in part because he does really well with the Spanish voters, especially younger Hispanic voters. So I, I, you know, it's difficult to say that the, you know, uh, Democrats have a problem on race or gender, uh, given that some of the very voters who fall into the sort of categories as, as, uh, voters of color are supporting the white Keenan. Now that's for complicated sort of pragmatic in some cases, um, uh, reasons.
Speaker 3: 12:10 But, uh, I think that's sort of explains this primary. If Candella Harrison, Cory Booker had done better, uh, with nonwhite voters, they wouldn't have dropped out. And so I think that was their challenge more than anything else is that the political allegiances of democratic voters are not simple. They're not straight forward. They're not simply sort of, uh, aligned with the, the gender or the race of the, of said voter. It's more complicated than that. And it's based upon relationships, history, views of who can win, um, their voters. And, um, I think that sort of explains why we are where we are right now in this primary.
Speaker 4: 12:51 Kamala Harris got into the race. She was the most interesting candidate there was. I mean, it was just everything about her scream, different people were God, what is she got the site, whatever kind of crowds is she getting? Yep. 20,000 and Oakland and then she didn't have anything to say.
Speaker 3: 13:06 And have you covered that campaign pretty closely? I think that some of her own supporters would actually agree with you that um, you know, not Havering and not having a coherent, clear, consistent message was a huge part of her challenge. And I think that, um, that campaign was sort of never sure how they wanted to present her and they were, uh, you know, call it up and trying to position her ideologically and, um, it was sort of challenged from day one as her own folks would tell you. I will say, guys, it's striking if you talk to them, especially older black voters. Uh, it's a very pragmatic strain of politics. Um, sort of 60 plus African American voters who think, look, this is a country that after two terms of a black president elected Donald Trump who sort of openly, uh, demagogued, uh, racial issues in his campaign, uh, that same country four years later, you know, might not be willing to turn to somebody who is, uh, you know, also gonna make history also gonna sort break barriers.
Speaker 3: 14:11 We gotta play it safe because white America, uh, isn't going to want to sort of make history again. And the safest play that we can make to get him out of office is Joe Biden, who's an older white guy. That's the calculation that I've heard time and time again from older African American voters. So I, yeah, I think there is a sort of pragmatic strain, uh, of, of, of politics here, uh, in the, uh, the black community, especially among older blacks. You know, and looking at that and cells are Iowa poll of about a week ago. James and I are, our cells are sycophants. She's as good as there is a Napoleon community or a couple of numbers. Uh, uh, really, really,
Speaker 2: 14:52 uh, uh, struck me more than the overall numbers among young voters. 35 and under Bernie Sanders, 36%, he almost lapsed the field. No one's even close. 78 year old guy who just had a heart attack a few months ago is the darling, uh, of young voters, Joe Biden, by the way, got 4% of young voters. What's Bernie's appeal to the young people? Is it the socialist pitch or what John,
Speaker 3: 15:18 it's incredible. I mean, it reminds me of that, that great philosopher, uh, of American politics, uh, two Americas as John Edwards famously put it. I mean, there are two Americas in this primary there. There's young America and there's older America. A young America tends to light Bernie Sanders a heck of a lot more than older voters do it. Why is it I think it's in part because of ideology. Al. I think it's also because they see them as sort of an unvarnished truth teller who speaks in straightforward ways, doesn't, doesn't shade his, his rhetoric, and he, somebody that they, um, uh, believe has a sort of simple, coherent, speaking of coherence, a simple, coherent unadorned message about social justice and um, you know, I think they'd like that authenticity. I think I hear it time and time again. He's real, he's authentic. He is who he is. I think that is really a refreshing element for younger voters in addition to the ideology.
Speaker 4: 16:14 Yeah. Clearly I made the older blacks, you know, they have an expression, you know, did you walk the walk and talk the talk and they feel like that Biden has walked the walk and he particularly walked the walk as being Obama vice president [inaudible] and they look at, at Biden and they see a fret. Is that, you know, about this guy's mid here. I know him. I trust him. A lot of you people have a lot of great plans. I'm not buying them right now. I'm going what? I know. And to that extent, they're very almost kind of conservative voters.
Speaker 3: 16:45 Oh yeah, no, no. There is definitely a sort of, um, a caution that you see in the African American community when it comes to their choices in democratic primaries. And as both of you guys know, that's been a sort of truth to democratic politics for decades now they, you know, historically have lined up with the more moderate establishment, uh, nominee. You know, you can go back to the Mondale campaign against hardened 84 and that was certainly the case. They are, so this is not a new story. I were in grade school that John Martin, you were in Greece. Well I was, I w I was getting closer to junior high, but yeah. Fair, fair enough. Um, but no, I look it's true and I think it's even more pronounced James, this time around because the urgency of getting Trump out of office is so powerful now that I think that conservatism that you mentioned is even more pronounced in terms of, you know, who can get this thing done for us. I don't want to fall in love. I just want to get this guy out.
Speaker 4: 17:42 Well for the Democrats, I say concert party, isn't it almost the biggest rock in Trump?
Speaker 2: 17:48 I think if you've got hair to chocolate in a wet, I think if you go head to head with Trump with a third party then it becomes dicey and you just can almost B O over there and left it, you know, they're starting to realize. I think that is the big danger of all of this.
Speaker 3: 18:04 And by the way, that's why Warren in the last week, 10 days has leaned into this pitch of she's the candidate that can unify all elements of the coalition. She can appeal to sort of left and middle, uh, and be the strongest candidate against Trump. The implication being that Bernie can't win over the moderates and that Biden can't win over the left. So she is trying to frame herself and by the way, she was such a policy issues can live for all 2019. It's sort of striking for the press Corps to hear her talk process like she is, but she's now trying to sort of make this case that, that she is the utility candidate in the race. I just think that that case got harder in the last 48 hours because the hardcore Bernie folks are going to have a hard time, um, you know, forgiving and forgetting, given what's happened here in terms of this accusation about whether or not he thinks a woman can win.
Speaker 2: 18:58 Yeah. And based on 2018, Jonathan, there is, there are indications that whenever we call them the more liberal leaning voters, the left, they didn't stay home. They voted for those, those a kind of moderate Progressive's and I doubt they will when it comes to Trump, let me just want a denim to the question of the Democrats and, and uh, and gender and color. Th th the, the two most popular figures according to polls, uh, and the, uh, among Democrats are Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi. Um, and Michelle Obama too. I mean, that's hardly a party that, you know, has turned somehow right on those issues. But, uh, in any event, I think your point about, about the practicality of particularly older black voters is a really good one.
Speaker 3: 19:43 Yeah. And, um, uh, the 2018 midterms have been kind of forgotten and I think in this, in this presidential race, but yeah, it was, it was, um, a surge of turnout, uh, among democratic voters and among voters who just supported Democrats because they wanted to send a message to Trump. And you're right that there was no real at the CERN mint, but to Wayne, well, you know, in some States that turnout was better because the candidates were, were more pure or more moderate. They just turned out well everywhere. And I think what I'm curious about is does that apply to this cycle with Trump himself on the ticket as well or is there really going to be heartburn, uh, from one of the two sides if they are nominee does not make it the, the progressives and the moderates or are they just going to turn out period because they want to beat Trump so badly?
Speaker 3: 20:35 Um, which is was what the case was in the mid term is where the candidates themselves are less well known and many voters are just showing up. The Pola a lever for, for the DS I would say trumps the cure for heart. Uh, it exists in Trump and Trump is the palliative, uh, James and once you win, there's two. But Jonathan, I think, uh, you know, I've covered Iowa caucuses for longer than I would care to admit. I mean, going back to 1976 and almost without exception, there's only one or two and those were, uh, unique. You know, you finished first or second and I were, you're dead. I think it's perfectly possible a lot can happen in the next two and a half weeks that all four of these candidates could come out of Iowa, you know, viable. Yeah. I'm a, to me it's a question of how closely the are bunched together owl.
Speaker 3: 21:25 Uh, I think if you got one or two who are far ahead of the field that's going to give him a nice burst. I think if they're all bunched up at 19 to 21, it's a different story. And a, I think, you know, it's possible that you could see four candidates, uh, collectively move out of Iowa still very much in the fight. What I'm curious about if climate sharp is how is victory define there? My understanding from doing some reporting is that she wants to sort of break into that top four and, and push one of the current top four down. That will give her a rationale to go forward if she breaks into that top four space. But again, to me the question is how closely tied together are they and is there any separation alone? Well, Clover char cannot say, Hey, I finished a good fifth.
Speaker 3: 22:12 I mean that's, that just doesn't, I agree. Got it. She's got a knock somebody off and, and you know, there was a lot of talk about how well she did in the last debate. She gets great press coverage in Washington and then Ann Selzer came out and said she's at 6%. I know it had, it's happened time and time again to where she gets you a nice coverage following the debates. She gets a good burst of money online following the debate and we kind of wait for this boomlet and it just doesn't happen out there. So if it's not happening now and the next week, 10 days and ain't gonna happen. So let's go to caucus night. Now we know that the turnout is going to be breathtakingly high. We know it's going to be complicated. Yeah. You know, the returns, how they come in, it's going to be very important that if somebody kind of leads early, I'd rather be in the lead 1130 at night.
Speaker 3: 23:02 And then when you wake up in the morning, is that action, you know, Western part of state came in, it wasn't as good, but what, what do I have any experience? [inaudible] [inaudible] interpreting and counting. Just level of, of of turnout that we're going to see here. Oh, Monday, three weeks. Yeah. I mean, I look, I think, um, the turnout will probably hit 2008 levels when you had Obama Bergen and a lot of new people into the process. I think it's gonna it's going to solar. Um, the Iowa Democrats say that they're ready. But you know, I don't want to complicate this too much for your listeners, but, um, it's going to be a more sort of transparent, um, process in terms of revealing numbers that I think could make this thing more complicated to keep it simple. They're now going to release the first, um, the first raw vote totals of who got how many votes in the initial count at these caucuses.
Speaker 3: 23:59 So you could have a key to who has more raw votes at the outset. But then in the second and final vote, when the, the voters realign to borrow the phrase the Iowans use, you could have somebody else who winds up with having the most votes because if you don't hit 15% as a candidate in that first vote, then your supporters have an option of either leaving the caucus or joining forces with a different candidate. And so it's that latter possibility that could give somebody on edge and the second ballot and even if they didn't have the most raw votes in the first vote, if that makes sense. And I think the key to whether someone's going to get 22 or 24% is how well they do in those rooms. Uh, I mean last time, uh, according to all evidence we have, uh, it was Ted Cruz being able to swarm the room and pick up Ben Carson and other delegates who didn't make that their show, which is why in the end he actually defeated Donald Trump in Iowa.
Speaker 3: 24:59 And uh, from what I mean, Bernie's done it before. Presumably he's prepared for that. Warren and Buddha judge say they are, there's some questions about Biden, but that's a really important point. At the end if it's a close four way race. And, and look, I expect if you have somebody who has the most raw votes in the first vote, but they don't ultimately have the most votes in the second and final tally, I fully expect that their staff is going to go, you know, and overdrive with the spin and just say, look, we got the most votes period. The more I would show up to caucus for us than any other candidate, we won the most votes. And I think that could sort of create a ferocious spin contest going to New Hampshire. You know, my experience from being there, I'll close, is the war and in budaj have the best operations in terms of being able to do just that County by County.
Speaker 3: 25:52 Uh, they've got the best, uh, organization at the precinct level and they're going to have the posture, the capability of being able to sort of, you know, find those, those, a second choice of voters who could be so crucial here on caucus night. Well, listen, John Martin, this has been terrific. Uh, and a two and a half weeks. Uh, my guess is it may be an exciting night, but it won't equal the LSU Clemson game. But that's okay. I don't think any caucus Al's going to be able to equal the LSU Clemson game for, for J for a James and I.
Speaker 5: 26:24 But look, thanks for having me on. Um, uh, it's great to be with both of you guys who I know have seen a few of these caucuses here over the years, so I enjoyed it. Thank you John. Thanks James. Thanks Al.
Speaker 6: 26:37 [inaudible]
Speaker 2: 26:46 James. All right. After a week's absence, which was sorely felt by us and all of our listeners, we have Christy numbers Harvey back on today. What do you have for us? Numbers?
Speaker 7: 26:58 All right fellas, look, I'm not gonna lie, technically I did have the flu last week, but really I was spending about 90% of my time focused on what's happening with the Astros cheating scandal. Won't get into it now, but I'm pretty prepared in case they, uh, tapped me to be the new commissioner of baseball. But I did take a few minutes to focus on a couple of other numbers and I'm going to run them by you. Okay. My first number is $307 million. Now this is the amount of money that Tom Stier and Michael Bloomberg together have already put into their campaigns. A stars at 106 million. And we saw what that's done in Nevada and South Carolina. It's been enough to get them in this week's debate. And also, um, Bloomberg has put 211 million into California and Texas and Florida, and he's all the way up around a fifth in the national polls. So here's my question, a hunt. I'll start with you. We know that money talks, but are these guys buying their way into an election or do you think there's simply filling a void that these other candidates aren't being able to fill? What do you think?
Speaker 2: 27:59 Well, of course they're buying their way into an election. That's why you spend that kind of money. I mean, Tom Stier shouldn't have been on that stage last night. There were other candidates that would have been, you know, I'd rather had Cory Booker or someone else there, but he didn't have $106 million to get up to 12% in Nevada. As for Michael Bloomberg, listen, if this, if these four guys or these three, this woman and the other three guys all survive those first four contests, and we go into with a fairly even ration to March 3rd and super Tuesday, Michael Bloomberg's money is gonna matter a lot and he's going to come out with a bunch of delegates.
Speaker 7: 28:34 James, is this a bad thing or is this just how the system works these days?
Speaker 4: 28:38 It's just a thing. Okay. It's a [inaudible] system. Works these days able to do that. Supreme court did not, you know, other than you pass a constitutional amendment, limited money in politics. This is just the way that you go and,
Speaker 7: 28:55 okay, well I'm, I'm going to shift gears just a little bit here, um, to my second number, which is four. Uh, so last week Donald Trump was talking about all of the actions he's been taking in Iran and said that all of this had to happen now because he believed, quote unquote, believed that Iran was planning imminent attacks on for us embassies. Now, this claim was not repeated in the briefing that Esper and Palm PEO had with lawmakers. And then defense secretary asked for walked it back on the Sunday shows. So as I'm still trying to get my head around all of this Iran stuff, it feels really slippery to me still. Um, I just had [inaudible] wanting to hear you guys out on this. James, I'll start with you. Um, that constant hyperbole and the gilding of the Lily that Donald Trump does. I know it's super annoying, but how dangerous is it? Especially when we're talking to Ron,
Speaker 4: 29:47 everything he does is dangerous. I, I mean, I, I last night I think that Trump and Trumpism is the greatest threat. There's countries since communism maybe [inaudible] more because more people will be attracted to racism and socialism in America. I don't think the guy has any idea what he's doing. I think the people around him that know anything are scared to death. I think he's unstable. I don't think this is at all normal. I wish there was something I can do about it. There's not very much.
Speaker 2: 30:19 Christy going back to your number four, there's a simple explanation. He made it up. He invented, it could have been three, it could have been 14. It could have been 16 or 17, because he was to put it nicely line, which he does what, 15,000 times since he's been president. And uh, you know, the fact that his defense secretary and secretary of state, uh, and national security advisor had to Guild it. It's just, you know, as James says, uh, you know, we never see him like this
Speaker 4: 30:52 if nothing, but they ought to do is quit doing every time he lies. It is every, if he ever tells the truth, they should put a headline.
Speaker 2: 31:00 Start to count it.
Speaker 7: 31:03 Yeah. All right. Uh, I have one final one and that is 71. And this one's for G U James. Uh, this season, 71 of LSU is 91. Touchdown drives. Took three minutes or less. Look, it takes me longer than that to fix a cup of coffee. Uh, that's pretty impressive. So James, I saw on CBS sports, they were asking, is this the best team, the best season, the best player, and the best coach of all time. Uh, so I just thought I'd throw it out to you. Is it,
Speaker 4: 31:32 uh, 71 in Nebraska? You know, some people cry. It's only came in the history of college football, a beat 17 in the top 10 when they played them and Joe bar shouted passing records, you know, like, Oh look at code Brennan at Hawaii. Who did Coke burn in Hawaii play? I mean, if you take Costa the board to call it the opposition, the margin of victory and everything. I, it's hard for me to say that there's a better team in college football. I mean, and we forget how good Clemson was. We're twins and did the Alabama last year. And I mean it [inaudible] has been a remarkable year. Yeah. I can't deny, I have one number and I thought to just a minute ago, 100, 100 billion. That's the number of doses of Oxycontin that was shipped in the United States between 2006 and 2014 a hundred billion. How can you make 100 billion of those things? And I don't know who's winning these lawsuits, but man, I'm very happy for you. I hope you win more.
Speaker 2: 32:34 Yeah, I am too. And they're winning them and [inaudible] and all kinds of places. I,
Speaker 4: 32:39 yeah. And everybody ought to pay for this and more. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: 32:44 Okay. Numbers. It's great to have you
Speaker 4: 32:46 back. Uh,
Speaker 2: 32:48 I'm going to time you, I'll bet you can make a cup of coffee in a quicker than three minutes. [inaudible]
Speaker 4: 32:53 we will see you in the copy. You know that Albert, take care. Bye.
Speaker 6: 32:59 [inaudible]
Speaker 8: 33:09 James, DSR. Let's do a back page now. You know, uh, we, we specialize in politics and Michelle, that's why I think most people listen, but we also have some other interests and we think some things that are, you know, both relevant or at least interesting history and military and other things. But one in particular, and this week, there cannot be a better week to talk about it
Speaker 2: 33:33 boards. Uh, and let's start with that Monday night game where you were there in new Orleans. It's your Alma mater, uh, two teams, 14 in Xero, a as big a buildup as we have ever seen. Uh, so just describe it and, and describe your reaction.
Speaker 4: 33:51 Well, there was start there. Of course it's in new Orleans. A couple of things you do. Maybe a third of the people they were Clemson people. They travel well [inaudible] they're really supportive football team and I were the universal observation down there. Mmm. You know what this team is meant to the state. I mean just given the fact that [inaudible] so Louisiana is such a story of redemption, you know, the whole Barra pies man trophy is, couldn't imagine what it was like. You know, that there are teams in college football and that good, you see him, you know, this team is going to be remembered for a long time and probably had 25 million viewers, the highest rated program or cable TV in the last [inaudible] in the last two years. Uh, it is, they keep going and have success that Elisha is going to establish itself as a national brand because OSHA owns just a more sympathetic person. And then st Buena, Dabo, sweetie or urban Meyer was any of these kind of big name coaches? I mean, he'd, Oh, Joel is a guide. It's easy for fans to light. Okay. And he w w after Joe Bari becomes the real face program. So I think we're looking good going forward.
Speaker 2: 34:59 Well, I do too. Now, you know, I'm not quite ready to put him in the Nick Saban category yet. He's got one.
Speaker 4: 35:04 I did not put him out. I was saying in terms of the weight that fans look at him, he's a much more Oh, likable person in Saipan. We've got, of course, I'm not saying he's [inaudible] [inaudible] coaching record, but when, so, you know, our urban Mar, uh, even Dabo, they're not as likable [inaudible] and not as much approachable. That's the point I was making.
Speaker 2: 35:28 Yeah. Uh, uh, so, uh, it was a, it ended up a fact. I mean, Clemson was good. I mean this was not, I mean they played
Speaker 4: 35:38 a good game. Uh, and uh, you know, when they were up by 10, were you worried? Yes, there's panic, but I shouldn't have. I mean, cause I've seen these guys do it so many times and I was worried right till we recovered that fumble. But that's me. I mean I'm a worry. Right, right. To the end. Any trouble. Art's had a game against Ohio state. I mean you always wondering, you know, he had a bat, he out here all through like eight receivers. Uh, but we had something to do with that too. And you know, just bars. Just that good. I mean, and our seniors. Yeah, I thought, I mean there, but two great coaches there is, by the way, I saw where your offensive coordinator is going to the Carolina Panthers. He's that, you know, that's a, that says we know an awful lot about him.
Speaker 4: 36:24 I thought I'm going to two great coaching staff. The one mistake I thought Clemson made to try to guard. Who's your player? Number one? God, he's far chase. I mean to try to guard him one on one was, was, was insane. Like I was an all American. I mean, you just cannot guard him one on one. Now maybe you give up something else, but you knew you were going to get one when you score three touchdowns. I mean, it was, it was if, if you double team him, then you got Jefferson, you got Tara Moss. I mean, they did. There's just too many weapons.
Speaker 2: 36:54 Yeah, there were a lot.
Speaker 4: 36:56 Yeah. I mean it just, they just do. And I made, plus that guy didn't do a bad job of covering Jabar to just borrow, throw the ball right in the basket. It didn't make a catch that [inaudible]. Unbelievable. Yeah, he met man. He is good. Uh, let's switch sports, major league baseball.
Speaker 2: 37:14 But in what may be the biggest scandal since the black Sox 101 years ago, Houston Astros were caught cheating. Uh, the major league baseball commissioner, uh, suspended the manager and the general manager. The Astros' then fired, uh, both of them. They were stealing signs and throughout the entire 19, 2000, 17, 18 seasons, including their 17 world series victory. And it ends up the red side. The bench coach then was the now red, who was the red Sox manager. Uh, he too was, he was really fired. Uh, yesterday. The red Sox are being investigated, uh, misses. This is a problem for baseball fans. Don't like cheating.
Speaker 4: 37:57 Yeah, I look everything that said. I agree with everything that's been said, but, but stop and think of this for a sec. They put the centerfield camera and it's adjacent to the dugout. All right. Th th that's like telling a high school football team that you walk in by [inaudible] the girl shower and the door is open, but don't look, all right, I'll look. So right there in a dog out, you have the capacity [inaudible] steel sides. It's hard to say. I'm not going to do that. I mean, it's almost like shit. Go back to and look. And when am I getting to change up? You know what, let me know.
Speaker 2: 38:36 And they're punished that they're going to be punished. It made a difference. It was against the rules. But man, there was a lot of temptation out there, I'll tell you that. Well, there may have been, I don't know how many others though. A took that temptation. They did it and they did it flagrant and was really done methodically and it was done, uh, you know, with drums and signals and everything else. I must say, I thought the coming down hard was right. I don't quite understand why that owner of the Houston Astros wasn't suspended, at least for a year. They said the general manager was suspended because he was in charge of it. Not that he knows he did it well. Who's in charge of him? Uh, I mean, I think the owner got off light and I'll tell you why, because that's who, that's one of Manfred's bosses.
Speaker 2: 39:22 And I'll just a quick story. One time Wyche Fowler, a former Congressman, Senator from Georgia, was applying for baseball commissioner. And he went in there and he told the, uh, baseball owners, he said, you know, I can bring you, you're going to have a lot of political issues and I can really help you with that. And Steinbrenner said, why would we hire a little piss ant like you? Well, we could get someone like Colin Powell and why she looked at him and said, cause you don't want to get someone you can't fire. Well, a man for knows he can be fired. And I, and I think, I think, I think the owner of the Astros got off really easy. Yeah. Probably did all right. Makes more sense to me. Pete barred, you know, hitching luau. But uh, he had to know about it too. I mean, it's his team.
Speaker 2: 40:03 Yeah. But the owners don't accept responsibility. Yeah. That's not gonna happen. No, no, no, that's absolutely right. I, you know, I think it will be, I think like the steroids a crisis of, of, of 15 or 20 years ago, you know, I think it will have a, a preventative effect. I think it's, I think teams are gonna think twice again before they cheat. Also our nationals, James, you know, in preparing for the world series came up with his incredibly complex system of changing every pitcher had a different signal, you know, one, because they thought it because they thought the Astros were likely to be cheating again. Yup, they did. I mean, th th th they dealt with it. Why do you use to deal with it? To just throw at your head? You know, you're right. I mean, it's not, there was a temptation was there also, it's not new. Uh, I used to work for the wall street journal and they broke a marvelous story some years ago that the most famous home run of all times, 1951 Bobby Thompson against Ralph Branca and the polo grounds to win the pennant for the New York giants. That the giants stole the signal. And Thompson knew what pitch Ralph Branca was throwing a whole book about it called echo in the green. It's pretty good. I mean, it's very, very detailed and very, very compelling. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Bobby Thompson, Bobby Thompson took the train to Staten Island after that game. Uh, times have changed a lot.
Speaker 2: 41:31 Goodness, man. Well, this has been, John Martin was a gouge often Barton was just, you know, I watch some of the shows last night and the part of quality, the commentators just vary so much. I thought obviously like David, probably very good. Uh, some of them just have no idea what they're talking about. Yeah, yeah. Axle rod was good and some of the others, you know, you didn't know what they were saying. Uh, but, uh, and I do, I, I really think that, um, I think CNN blew that Sanders Warren thing. I don't want to say I'm not in the gotcha, but, but I mean that they were actually, they were actually calling each other liars and, uh, you know, someone should've followed up with that, but, you know, we'll see what happens. Somebody, let's run this tour again. Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right. Listen, again, I want you to keep celebrating, uh, the most fabulous victory maybe in the history of college football. And, uh, we will look forward to, uh, to the next week. But you know, one thing we did not talk about is this new revelation in the NPR impeachment inquiry. Okay. [inaudible]
Speaker 2: 42:38 you know the left part off and notes, right. You know, when you say just going to move any Republicans to vote? Aye. Aye. Aye James. What I have have thought and continue to think is they will come up with some cosmetic approach to witnesses. They will be limited. It'll be curtailed. Uh, and it'll be, as I say, largely cosmetic. I think the importance of the pardon as, uh, you know, basically trying to give Rudy, you know, dirt, which is what they were all after on, on Hunter Biden. And also the Russians were tapping into that, that, uh, that company, the Russians were trying to do Trump's bidding too. So what that shows is that every week, every month something new is going to come out. And those Republicans may feel perfectly confident on February the 10th when they vote to acquit, but they shouldn't forget something else is going to come out on February the 22nd and on March the 17th, then, uh, you know, down the road. Yep. The more, you know, you keep all that out and it didn't just keep coming after it, you know, evidence just keeps piling it right. Right. No, it does. Correct. All right, well, this has been fun today. Good talking to ya. And I want to thank you all for listening. And again, please subscribe to 2020 politics war room with James Carville and Albert Hunt. Uh, you can go to Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: 44:26 [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible].