Judy Woodruff and Mary Matalin are 'The Better Halves' for the Holidays.
Al Hunt, Judy Woodruff, Mary Matalin, James Carville
Judy Woodruff and Mary Matalin join their husbands Al Hunt and James Carville, respectively, on 'The Better Halves' Holiday Episode. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from the 2020 Politics War Room family to yours.
Al Hunt: Welcome to 2020 Politics War Room. I'm Al hunt. My partner,James Carville, is down in New Orleans. Subscribe rate and review this podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Podcast. First, a Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas to everyone. Even Jim Jordan. James, this is a season [00:00:30] of faith, the birthday of Christ, but it's for everyone. It is a season, it should be at least, a season of joy and we have special reason or reasons to be joyful because of our spouses. As the late Bob Novak said, they were kind enough to let us keep our maiden names, but we have Mary Matalin and Judy Woodruff here. Thank you both for being with us.
Mary Matalin: It is great to be here with the three of you. I'm so excited to be joining you.
James Carville: Holly jolly kids.
Al Hunt: [00:01:00] All right, let's start off, rather than talking about the heavy stuff, which is too heavy. Mary how did the Madalin-Carville's spend Christmas?
Mary Matalin: Well, depends on where LSU and or the Saints are in football lineup. So, this year, we are going to have a quiet Christmas in anticipation of celebrating the Tigers, Go Tigers, in our famous Heisman Trophy [00:01:30] winner Joe Burrow. Thank you Ohio.
James Carville: One thing, we would go to my sister's house, which is where I grew up, but an hour and 10 minutes from new Orleans. Christmas day is pretty quiet. Sometimes we like to have spaghetti and meatballs on Christmas day.
Mary Matalin: Every place has a different Christmas and holiday traditions and New Orleans and Louisiana is obviously no exception. But one thing I never experienced until we moved here was [00:02:00] where these bonfires, I would ask James to elaborate on them, but they are bonfires on the levee, two stories high. What's the history of...
James Carville: St. James parish. Between Baton Rouge and New Orleans. It's this cultural thing and they light the bonfires on the levee because it's supposed to, on Christmas Eve, so it guides Santa so he can find everybody's house and you should just go online and they'll have a camera of the St. James parish bonfires and they've been doing it forever and the tradition is just one [00:02:30] of these things that it's gotten bigger and bigger as you go forward. And when somebody thinks they're quite elaborate.
Mary Matalin: You know Santa needs a light to guide him here because we're the only state that has a drive by daiquiri stands so he probably needs a designated driver if he's coming through Louisiana.
James Carville: So, I am dying to ask this question. Judy Woodruff is up, I think the most prominent female journalist, maybe ever in American history. What is your favorite [00:03:00] Christmas Carol?
Judy Woodruff: Oh my golly. I wish I'd thought about that ahead of time. There are so many of them.
James Carville: That's why I wanted to just kind of hit you off the top of your head.
Judy Woodruff: You know, I am a sucker for all the... I love everything from Silver Bells to Jingle Bells to I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas to the hymns we sing at church on Christmas. I love all of that. In fact, I'm one of those people who likes to start listening to Christmas songs at Thanksgiving.
Mary Matalin: [00:03:30] Not that you have any choice.
Al Hunt: Mary, I will quickly tell you that one time my wife told me to stop singing in church. I'm not exactly known for being able to carry a tune. When your kids were younger, Mary, did you have special things you did that day? Was there a routine or ritual or what?
Mary Matalin: Well, as y'all know, and probably most of everybody's listening who are all our friends, we had our kids late, [00:04:00] so I didn't know how to be a mother. For Maddie's first Christmas, we had a 30 foot high Christmas tree and I handmade every ornament and to this day, she's holds it up as my highest triumph for her. She doesn't remember a thing, but you know the stuff you do for your kids because it is, you are so right, it is for family and it's so weird when, you guys are experiencing [00:04:30] this too, when your kids would rather not be with you on Christmas. It's not that they'd rather not be with you, but they start bringing home boyfriends and girlfriends and friend friends and it just expands. Christmas joy expands.
Al Hunt: Well, Christmas is, at least my favorite day of the year, I think. Judy, with some trepidation, I ask you to tell James and Mary about our Christmas day ritual.
Judy Woodruff: Well, the truth is we live in Washington [00:05:00] DC and the truth is that we borrow our Christmas tradition from mainly from the hunt household, when Al hunt was growing up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, but it involves waiting until pretty late to get the tree. We often don't get the tree until about a week before Christmas. It's always a live tree. It's not 30 feet, Mary, but we try to get one that almost touches the ceiling and we've got a couple of angels we alternate every year putting on the top. I've never made an ornament.
Judy Woodruff: [00:05:30] I'm in awe of you for making the ornaments for the tree, but we've collected ornaments over the years, and that's a big deal for us, but on Christmas morning, the ritual is, the children come down, we have breakfast, Santa has mysteriously and amazingly left a lot of interesting items in everybody's stocking and we go around the table after we eat breakfast and everybody can open the stocking. We don't, we never let the children, even though they are now [00:06:00] all in their thirties, they are not allowed to go into the living room to look at what's Santa brought, but it's just such a great tradition and there's funny stuff in the stockings, which Mr. Hunt is usually responsible for.
Al Hunt: The other thing that happened, Mary, in 1986,one of Judy's dearest friends is Andrea Mitchell. They worked together at NBC. So, she invited her to spend Christmas breakfast and Christmas day with us. It was just great and the next [00:06:30] year Andrea called and said, "Can I bring my boyfriend?" And we said "Sure." Her boyfriend was the chairman of the federal reserve board. So we have gone out for 32 years, we have Christmas morning with Alan Greenspan and Andrea Mitchell and when he was at the pinnacle of his power, there was nothing more fun than to make fun of him. We would get him things like a full size picture, a blow up of Paul Volcker and he is really quite a good sport and puts up with all this so we have fun.
Mary Matalin: He's irrationally [00:07:00] exuberant is what you're saying. He's a man of irrational exuberance for all seasons. Judy, you reminded me of two funny stories about James. We only had that 30 foot Christmas tree once cause, y'all had been to the farm, we have that great room and it was stupid. When I say made it for the whole tree, I only covered half the tree, but we decided we want to get a have a fresh tree. So do you know James and you know how athletic, and mechanical and jockey he is. We go out to this field to cut [00:07:30] our own tree complete with a saw, do you remember this honey? We out there five minutes, he goes, "It's too damn cold." He goes, "Can't do this buy one fully decorated theyn go to Costco and get one."
James Carville: I love this time of year down here because the weather's generally pretty good and there's always, particularly this year with LSU being good and the Saints going [00:08:00] to the playoffs and just a lot of excitement. And you always does Christmas pretty well. I mean it's kind of a big deal out here. It's a very Catholic culture, so people tend to decorate more than other places. It's a really cool time of year down here.
Mary Matalin: You want to hear juvenile story that James does every Christmas. He mentioned going to his sisters. James is one of eight and those eight had 47 kids in those 47 kids now have over 75 kids and we all jam into his sister's house. [00:08:30] And when I say screaming kids in a smallish house... So James starts this chant, which is, "Should we eat? Should we pray? Should we say to hell with it?" What do you say?
James Carville: I would say, look, when on one of the kids were late I said, "Should we wait and defer our pleasure and have our presence later or just say to hell with it, open up," and they'd start screaming. I said, "Wait a minute. The priest's here, "Father, what would the baby Jesus want us to do? [00:09:00] They want us to defer our and bring our whole family together?" And then they would just get these crazy looks. "No, no, no."
Mary Matalin: Three year olds screaming "To hell with him! To hell with him!" He's such a leader in his family?
Judy Woodruff: Well, you guys have a mob at Christmas. We don't have quite that big a group, but we do manage to have a lot of fun. And over the years we've invited friends to join us. I mean, I remember when our kids were little, we would always take them to the service on Christmas Eve. It was, what, Al? Usually at four o'clock?
Al Hunt: Five o'clock.
Judy Woodruff: Five o'clock [00:09:30] in the afternoon, and they would have live animals there. The children were encouraged to dress up as shepherds and everything you can imagine that has to do with The Nativity. And it was great fun watching these kids just wander all around.
Al Hunt: You know, this is all sounding so idyllic. This goes to the same type of story as James cutting down Christmas tree. We started to date in 1977.
Judy Woodruff: Oh I was going to tell that story.
Al Hunt: Okay, you go ahead.
Judy Woodruff: So I, Al and [00:10:00] I had been dating, I don't know, what about a year maybe, almost a year. And Christmas was coming and I knew Al to be this very sweet tempered, a mild mannered gentleman. Long story short, I had just bought a house in a neighborhood called Cleveland Park and we had chosen this, this Christmas tree, live tree, and Al is dragging it up the stairs. There are about 20 stairs. He gets to the front door and the bottom of the tree is coming in the door [00:10:30] first, meaning, in this narrow front door, he's trying to get the branches... The branches are wide and they don't fit. I mean you would normally bring the tree in from the top. And, and I saw the formerly, pleasantly, disposed, mild mannered Al hunt, turn into somebody who couldn't figure out what to do and wasn't willing, shall we say, to take a suggestion about backing off and to bringing the tree in the opposite [00:11:00] direction. but our relationship survived. It was at 1978?
Al Hunt: 77. It was great training for the next 42 years. From now on, or not now on because he wasn't even born, but starting about 25 years ago, we have Benjamin put up the Christmas tree every year cause I can't do it. But the other thing we do is, this was great when the kids were younger, we go to Vail and the great stick was to have [00:11:30] Christmas breakfast, have a wonderful time, get in a car or a little van around 12 o'clock, go to Dallas airport, get in an airplane and fly to Denver. And when the kids are four, seven, eight, 10, if they have their presents, they're happy. And rather than being a pain in the neck around the house, they just slept on the plane. So it was a nice way to end Christmas day and we're going to do it this year except they're not four, seven, eight and 10.
Mary Matalin: You know, you reminded me of a great story about,the weird world in which we all [00:12:00] live or have lived. After 9/11 and I had to spend the next two years in an undisclosed secure location, which meant I always had to be with Dick Cheney wherever he was. So we had to go to, at that time, the undisclosed secure location was in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. The kids were four and seven. James hates the cold. My previous story indicated, I am a Christmas freak. The vice president, [00:12:30] they had a dead head, the air force to there. So, he let me bring all my Christmas ornaments, all my presents and the advanced team got us a Christmas tree and they were all young, single men. You walk in, there is this Charlie Brown tree. I've dragged all this stuff, cross country and my kids, and the tree had like three little branches.
James Carville: It was 30 degrees below zero.
Mary Matalin: There was 14 [00:13:00] feet of snow. The kid, Emerson walked out the front door and went into 14 feet of snow. We couldn't find her. It was unbelievable. And James just regaled all those crazy Republicans with Boudreaux and Maker's Mark stories.
Judy Woodruff: Oh, I love it. I love it. But it does sound like a Jackson or wherever you were gets colder than Vail.
Al Hunt: Vail gets pretty cold.
James Carville: [inaudible] I don't know if it was cold in a lot of places that day.
Al Hunt: I'll tell you one nice story about our time [00:13:30] in Vail. As you both know our oldest son, Jeffrey, was injured and can't walk. And one of the first reactions he had was, "I'll never be able to ski again. I'm so sad." And our friends out there said, "Of course he can ski." And we take him every year and he does adaptive skiing out there and he skis the whole mountain. I mean literally the Back Bowls. He does everything on a [inaudible] and it's one of the great highs, I think of his year. I mean he can't wait to get out to Vail on Christmas Day.
Judy Woodruff: [00:14:00] It's so cool. And the adaptive ski program they have at Vail, and frankly at so many ski resorts, now has opened up this sport to people, including wounded warriors, veterans. We see a lot of them in Vail and know that they ski. But for Jeff, it's just the highlight of, of the year.
James Carville: That's the highlight of this show. That's a great story. It's very uplifting.
Judy Woodruff: Because he can be [00:14:30] on the mountain with us the entire day. I mean, as long as we're out there, he can be out there with his instructor or two instructors.
Mary Matalin: That is so awesome. And he's such a sweet kid. How does that work? I grew up in the Midwest and I ski and I could put James on adaptive skiing. Otherwise, I don't know what he would do. Spread the good word on this. How does that work? Do you just call [00:15:00] up and say, "Do you have an adaptive ski program?"
Judy Woodruff: Yeah, most do. And they have different mechanical devices. I don't know what other term to use. I mean we see blind skiers in Vail. They wear a banner, a little like an apron or bib rather that says blind skier. So you know, they're on the mountain, they're obviously all skiing with someone and we see secures with one leg. I mean in Jeffrey's case, because [00:15:30] he can't stand on his own, it's a sit ski, it looks a little bit like a small sled and he goes down the mountain with one instructor behind him holding a tether, a rope and Jeffery leans left and right and goes down and then the other instructor skis ahead. So, to sort of make sure nobody's ahead, but they go very fast and they do blue and even groomed black runs. It's really, really extraordinary. And just gives everybody a lift.
Al Hunt: [00:16:00] I'll tell you what, I wrote a column one time cause Vail, Colorado is supposedly the playground of the rich and privileged is really the most disability accessible place I've ever been. And we'd been over to the US Navy Marine Corps stadium because our nephew played lacrosse against Navy and it was really awful. It Was not at all disabilities friendly. And so, I wrote a column talking about this contrast and the column was read by Senator John Sidney McCain, the next year, US Navy Marine Corps stadium was very disabilities [00:16:30] friendly.
James Carville: You would think that a stadium that has military, I mean it kind of has a lot of disabled people that served in the military to put it mildly.
Al Hunt: I think John McCain made that point probably more emphatically that I am making it now.
Judy Woodruff: So I have a question from Mary. You know Mary, you and I have a lot of friends, a lot of girlfriends we talk to, but I have to say these two guys, we are married to, I think they talk not only at least once a day, maybe [00:17:00] several times a day. We have been in China on a thousands and thousands of miles and Al will be on the phone with James and Al will frankly be using his Louisiana accent when he talks. But Mary, my question is, do you have any idea what they talk about?
Mary Matalin: Well as a matter of fact, our paths do not cross that often during the day. [00:17:30] But I have never been in the car with one Chester James Carville that he's not been on the phone with Mr. Albert Hunt here. They are worse than any girls and I don't know about you, Judy, but the older I get, the less I like talking on the phone, just give me a text. That's how we communicate with the kids. It's just too bothersome for me to get on the phone. He talks to Al six times a day. He talks to George Stenocephalous every day, Ron every day. [00:18:00] All he does is yabber on the phone all day. I'm waiting for him to start doing his nails and getting facials and it's the most girly girl thing and they don't really talk about anything. They just sort of gossip. I swear Judy, like the gossip, the likes of which you would never spend your brain power doing.
Judy Woodruff: Well, I'll occasionally hear Al mention a poll number or something that he saw and yeah, exactly. Or they may mention sports.
Mary Matalin: [00:18:30] May? I am very grateful for Al's friendship to James because James is somewhat of an addictive and obsessive personality. I don't know if you notice that, but Al really fulfills his sports junkie dumb. They talk a lot about sport yesterday. I mean recently you spent a lot of time talking about the Heisman Trophy. They've been on this football journey now for like 50 times a day.
James Carville: [Inaudible]
Mary Matalin: [00:19:00] Well, the nice thing Mary, we had that incredible baseball season like no one has ever has before. And then, right after that was over and having withdrawal symptoms, James right away got into LSU. We had been in LSU before, but what a season. And I remember James Carville last January, after that one controversial call, it was that terrible call in the playoff game. And he said, "Albert, I'll tell you, Louisiana [00:19:30] is just jinx. They're out to get us. We're never going to get a fair break. It's just awful, Albert. We're doomed. They all hate us." And you know, since then I would point out there's LSU and the Heisman Trophy winner. The saints are going to the playoffs and the Pelicans got Zion Williamson. James, I don't think they hate you.
James Carville: Mary hadn't watched the Saints a lot more, but she watched the Georgia game. It's your a home game and she calls and she says, "You know Joe Burrow? He's really good. I mean he's really good." I say, "yeah, he's really, [00:20:00] really good."
Mary Matalin: He's making me sound like a dunce but for all of your listeners, this is a once in a lifetime quarterback. That's all I have to say. And I'm increasingly associating winter, particularly since we're in a warmer climate here, with these winter sports. And I knew who Joe Burrow was and what he was doing is from Ohio, but that Georgia game, it was like ballet. He could have been doing the Swan. I mean it was the most beautiful thing.
Mary Matalin: I love athleticism [00:20:30] and I don't want to get anywhere near politics, but it's a place you can go and be completely root for your home team and your people and it's not this way everywhere, but I grew up in Chicago, it like that there, but even more Louisiana in New Orleans, in Baton Rouge, the entire community's lives are organized around the football season and everybody, [00:21:00] the way the schedule works is you go to LSU on Saturday, you go to the church on Sunday and you go to the Saints on Sunday afternoon and it's the perfect, perfect holiday and post-holiday weekend period of time. And then, as soon as that ends you go right into Mardi Gras.
Judy Woodruff: It sounds like Mary, you are a much more supportive a sport spouse then than I am to Al. Al counts on my companionship during a national, during baseball season because I do love [00:21:30] the nationals. I'm not as hot on football as he is. And then in basketball season, my beloved Duke Blue Devils, I do pay attention to college basketball.
Al Hunt: Well I would just say Mary, I may not be Joe Burrow, but you wait until Zion Williamson starts playing down there. He is a phenom, the likes of which few people have ever seen.
James Carville: He is. We need it fast too. I should be back in a couple of weeks.
Mary Matalin: Well, you guys will appreciate this. He is magnificent, [00:22:00] extraordinarily, once in a lifetime player in anybody's life, but this particular case, our baby girl is, this is her senior year, so she's had nothing but great LSU teams and this is her last gam she went to and during finals, I said "how you doing?" She goes, "Well, I'd be doing a lot better if I didn't go to the Georgia game, but I would never give that up in my entire life. I don't care what my GPA is." I said, "Oh, hang on for your dad, honey."
James Carville: [00:22:30] [inaudible] They go to the game and the girls all go together. I mean, they follow them. They went to Austin. They went to Nashville for the Vanderbilt game. They went to Atlanta for the Georgia game. They travel. They went to Alabama.
Al Hunt: You guys have LSU and the Saints. I'm stuck with the Washington Redskins and my beloved alma mater, Wake Forest and I love Wake Forest, but they're not exactly a football power. So, the only one that's... [inaudible] [00:23:00] The pinstripe bowl, I know. Judy does get, she gets craze in Duke basketball games though. She can say that she's blase about this. But when Duke plays basketball, she is crazy.
Judy Woodruff: I get teased a lot, Mary and James, by our children, especially our son Ben, who follows sports as his father does and who teases at the only thing I know how to say it a game is "Go Duke." [00:23:30] It doesn't get much more complicated than that
Al Hunt: Mary, I have to tell you one more James Carville story. In 2002, he came up with an absolutely fabulous idea. Let's go to Las Vegas for this prize fight, De la Hoya against Vargus. And as I recall, you got us great tickets and we went out with Paul Begala and we took my 15 year old son, Benjamin, and I said, "Give me a little while because it's not going to be easy to persuade Judy to let him go to Vegas for a [00:24:00] prize fight. So he said, "Fine." The next day he did Inside Politics on CNN.
Judy Woodruff: Al, watch the language here.
Al Hunt: And he said, "Judy, Benjamin in Vegas, boxing, booze, broads. What more could a boy want?" It setback the cause.
Judy Woodruff: I was horrified, but he still went. Al had already cooked this thing up and there was no talking to him out of it.
James Carville: I always encourage young people to get in the vice early cause you've got more time than [inaudible. It'd be terrible to pay off that later. What a great show [00:24:30] guys.
Al Hunt: This is terrific. Listen, both of you a not only a Merry, Merry Christmas, but Go Tigers. A great trip to Atlanta and the happiest of New Year's.
James Carville: And a Merry Christmas to all.
Judy Woodruff: We wish you the Merriest of Christmases to both of you.
Mary Matalin: Back at you.
Al Hunt: Here we are on the Eve [00:25:00] of Christmas and who better to talk to than Christy "Numbers" Harvey.
Christy Harvey: Hey guys, happy holidays. I know it is the Christmas season and the winter holiday season, but I've got a scary number for you this week and that number is 115.6 million and that is the number of Americans who are going to hit the road traveling for the holidays between Christmas and New Years, 115.6 million. [00:25:30] It's the most in the 20 years since AAA has started tracking those numbers and is up from 4% last year, which I already thought was pretty horrific and the reason I personally care about this is my husband and I for Christmas each year just give each other, as a present, a little vacation the week between Christmas and New Years. So we are going to be one of those 115.6 million people hitting the road and I'm terrified. Time to rethink the gift, I think
Al Hunt: James, [00:26:00] tell him where you're going to be going.
James Carville: I'm going to be hitting the road myself. I'll be going to Atlanta for a little dust up, a football game, between Oklahoma and my fighting Tigers of LSU. So I'll be joining the 156 billion motoring up to Atlanta.
Christy Harvey: Nice. Nice.
Al Hunt: Well, I will not be joining those on the highway, but we will be getting in an airplane on Christmas day and coming back on New Year's day and having flown with, I think both of you, you realize that as [00:26:30] perilous as the roads might be, I might prefer the roads.
Christy Harvey: I think your fellow passengers might say the same. You are not an easy flyer Hunt. Well there's 7 million people hitting airways so plan your time accordingly. So, is that your Christmas present? Is your trip or what are you getting and what are you looking for this holiday season?
Al Hunt: Well I was going to give you what I've given you for 25 years, Christie, which is my [00:27:00] high regard and affection. You've always said, "That's not enough. Could you do a little bit better?"
Christy Harvey: I treasure it.
Al Hunt: I've got a lot of things from my family and for the country, it's very easy to know what I want for Christmas and that's to get a new president.
Christy Harvey: James, is a new president also on your Christmas wish list?
James Carville: It's my whole life wish list, I'll be honest with you. No, I love this time of year. Particularly down here, the weather's good [00:27:30] and it's just a wonderful time of year all the way up and down. If we win a game, that's even better.
Christy Harvey: So, this is more of your happy football season time of year rather than your Merry Christmas time of year.
James Carville: Yeah, I think so. I think this year in particular.`
Christy Harvey: All right, well Merry Christmas
Al Hunt: I think it's the best holiday. We have a wonderful time. We do things like go to Mark Shields on Christmas Eve and then have a big day and Christmas so it's going to be fun even [00:28:00] if I can survive the airplane flights.
Judy Woodruff: I love it. Well Merry Christmas and Happy New Years guys. I'll see you after the holiday break with my New Year's resolutions and I'll talk to you then.
James Carville: Okay, Christie. We love you. Thank you.
Christy Harvey: Bye bye.
Al Hunt: Bye bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Please subscribe, rate and review. Be generous. This podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google podcast. Happy holidays to everyone. See you next week.